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Mackey Regarding Word Choice on Health Care

In an interview with NPR on Wednesday, Whole Foods Market co-CEO John Mackey discussed his new book, Conscious Capitalism, along with other topics such as health care. Today, John revisited his remarks on the Huffington Post and we are sharing them here.

I made a poor word choice to describe our health care system, which I definitely regret. The term fascism today stirs up too much negative emotion with its horrific associations in the 20th century.  While I'm speaking as someone who works hard to offer health care benefits to more than 73,000 team members, who actually vote on their overall benefits packages, I am very concerned about the uninsured and those with preexisting conditions. 

I believe that, if the goal is universal health care, our country would be far better served by combining free enterprise capitalism with a strong governmental safety net for our poorest citizens and those with preexisting conditions, helping everyone to be able to buy insurance. This is what Switzerland does and I think we would be much better off copying that system than where we are currently headed in the United States.

I believe that health care should be competitive in the open market to promote innovation and creativity. Despite the criticism of me, I am encouraged that this dialogue will bring continued awareness and a better understanding of viable health care options for all Americans. There is an alternative to mandated health care in free enterprise capitalism based on voluntary exchange for mutual gain. This alternative allows individuals and businesses to innovate and develop customized solutions to health care where a “one size fits all approach” fails.  Creativity and progress are stifled when government regulations dictate the parameters of what health care plans can be offered. Creative businesses, and the people who work them, can make something that has value for all stakeholders.

I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era.  I think for now I will simply call it government-controlled health care to distinguish it from free enterprise capitalist health care.  Clearly, I would prefer free enterprise capitalism in health care because it would greatly increase innovation and progress —just like it does in every other aspect of our lives, wherever it is allowed to exist. I hope those who are my critics, would recognize that we are all after an improved state of society, and not be distracted by the poor use of an emotionally charged word. 

If you would like to hear more from John, you can listen to him here:

CBS This Morning: “Bad Choice of Words”

Huffington Post

NPR Interview Part 1

NPR Interview Part 2

You can read more about John, his philosophy and his new book, Conscious Capitalism at:

Forbes: “Why Companies Should Embrace Conscious Capitalism”

Financial Post: “Making Money Need Not Be A Zero-Sum Game”

Investor Business Daily “John Mackey Built Healthy Food Empire”

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1163 comments

Comments

Hannah Moore says …

I must express such disappointment with your use of the Whole Foods bully pulpit to press your rather extreme views on our new, long-awaited affordable health care act. I visit my local Whole Foods four or five DAYS each week. 80% of my household food budget is spent in that store. That's about $6K each year. I only buy organic, sustainably raised foods. My husband, outraged by your use of the word fascism, insists I shop elsewhere. I have also now learned that you aren't just a libertarian, but also a climate change denier. This is in fact more distressing, as I have contributed many times to your microfinance foundation to help people in developing countries. These people are the ones who will be most affected by rising oceans and higher temps. I wish you had never purchased Fresh Fields.

Suzanne says …

Free enterprise capitalism in health care already exists, and you can see where it's gotten us. Insurance companies post billions in profits, while their clients have to fight for even the most basic coverage under policies that are written to be deliberately confusing and disingenuous. It's ridiculous to assume or believe that benevolent overlords in business can be counted upon to do the right thing and make affordable health care available to their employees. It's astonishing that someone who leads a business associated with health and wellness fails to comprehend or support the efforts of government to achieve the same goals. The business community has had years to institute affordable health care initiatives, and most have failed. John Mackey's choice of words was unfortunate, but his belief system is even more offensive. I'll never set foot into a Whole Foods Market again.

Bradley Smith says …

Try Government Regulated Healthcare. Regulated like food safety. It is far from controled...and in this instance you are implying a ton of negativity once again. Otherwise, all the capitalists will extract every bit of worth out of everything, everyone, and leave a dying planet in their shadows. You have risked the good faith and trust that many have for your company...for what? Silly.

Chris lynn says …

Your word choice shows poor judgment on several levels: you show yourself to be intemperate, you risk alienating your customer base, you show that you do not understand what true fascism (or socialism) really is, and you obviously do not understand the ACA. The health-care law is better-described as 'government-mandated healthcare' ; it is not government controlled. The insurers and providers are free to use all the creativity available under capitalism to improve their products, and consumers are free to choose providers. All government has done is to mandate that everyone has to be insured, to prevent the free-rider problem. When you show indications of better understanding of the world, and better judgment perhaps I'll think about visiting your stores again.

Tad Gallion says …

I'd love to hear Mr. Mackey's comments on how Obamacare (modeled on Romneycare) does not allow competitive open market solutions. How does he see this stifling? As I understand it, we still buy private health insurance from companies that still compete. The health providers are also competitive as healthcare was also not nationalized. Does he mean stifled because all insurance companies must offer certain coverages like inoculations for children without a co-pay... that sort of thing? Thanks.

Jenna Reese says …

I have been reading some of the comments on this blog. It amazes me about the use of progressive buzzwords - 1% remarks, corporate greed, etc. The govt is the 1 % and they are not your friend. They do not care about your health, your freedom or anything else about you except of course to control you. They lure you into feeling they care about you in exchange you give up youIn the future only elites will get healthcare. Reseach the WHOLE LIVES System for a glimpse of you will be getting healthcare. Learn about UN Agenda 21, research the Georgia Guidestones, read the 5000 Year Leap and of course the Constitution. Then make your choices. If you hate corporate greed, don't support the corporations, sell your stocks, don't invest, don't buy their goods/services. It amazes me how little many people regard freedom. You will be losing.

Arlene L. Silva says …

I would classify Mackey's unfortunate statement as disappointing, but it's really not - instead it's a service to those of us former shoppers who have supported Whole Foods for so many decades. Happily, there are now many stores embracing the concept of organic, locally produced food leaving us with many alternate shopping opportunities. In closing I'd point out that we always say what we mean to say - we just may not have meant to say it out loud.

Kathryn Morse says …

Well, this clarification isn't much better. We have had Free Market Capitalism and well, hospital executives and managers and health insurance companies are doing quite well. But not the rest of us. That is what the laws are trying to address. I will not be supporting or shopping at Whole Foods anymore, either. I love to support businesses that pay well and offer benefits to their employees - who are my neighbors! . . . Oh, and I remember when I sent the company a question about the safety of the fish and vegetables they import from China and I never got an answer.

Teresa Flannery says …

I am so sick of people saying things and them taking them back when what they said has a negative effect. I am done with whole foods. I do all of my food shopping there but as I get older I know that it is imperative that companies take responsibility for their employees. I believe in capitalism, not gree. Everyone should have the right to food, shelter, and healthcare.

Sharon Murphy says …

While the enormous amount of money I have spent over the years at Whole Foods will not be missed by your CEO, And he is not concerned about losing Whole Food base I will not return to your store. I am angry that the arrogance of this CEO is allowed to be the bold face of a company that I have trusted to have higher standards on every level and at the highest a book thumping self absorbed ask me if I care wealthy white man is once again mixing his personal beliefs into representing the company. At least Walmart does not try and pretend to be more than what it is and I am sure with your profit margins there will be a push to promote the company beyond the words, but you have by letting him be your voice lost this very loyal customer. Sharon Murphy

Brooks says …

I hope that wasn't supposed to be an apology, because it wasn't an apology. Mr. Mackey would do well to remember that a large percentage of the folks who shop at Whole Foods (myself included) are a little more left-leaning than himself. To bandy about words like fascim in the media to describe our president's policies is perhaps not the wisest thing to do for someone in charge of perpetuating the strength of the Whole Foods brand. WF isn't the only supermarket that sells organic food. BTW, Mr. Mackey's use of the word was improper and inaccurate. Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. 2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Gary says …

I have supported Whole Foods in the past and will continue to do so in the future. I have no problem with the CEO's remarks. He like everyone else has the right to his own opinion. Those that quit shopping at Whole Foods will more than likely be replaced by those that agree with his comments and or his right to make them. Knee jerk reactions to a comment and threats of boycotts are not the mature solution to anything. Great store, Great business, keep providing a great service and your business will thrive like it has to this point.

casey says …

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." -Benjamin Franklin

William Harper says …

Mr Mackey, Your remark about the Swiss healthcare system is valid, but you have to understand that it's totally private insurance system is backed by 4 or 5 huge insurance companies that offer any and every kind of insurance including health insurance. For a basic health insurance plan for every man, woman and child in Switzerland they offer cost that is profitless to them. Why, because they make so much money on all kinds of insurance they can do this for their country and countrymen, something that most, if not all insurance companies in the States would never do.

claudia dekarz says …

I am deeply offended by the comments of John Mackey.I am a german citizen and resident of the States since 20 years.

Michael Cox says …

This ex-Whole Foods customer doesn't understand what your myopic CEO is saying. What he says he wants is pretty much what the Affordable Care Act prescribes, private sector insurance with a government safety net. Well designed employer plans are not going to have to change much. A better concern for an entrepreneur would be what we get for what we pay. Pre-Act, we have the highest health care costs (as a % of GDP) in the world, but still lag the western world and many developing countries in most statistical measurements of health. Spend your energy (and venom) on that!

Nancie LaPier says …

I found your comment about our President's plan to act on behalf of the "less specious", entitled and largest percentage portion of our nation prejudicial, if not racist, non- communal, not inclusive, lacking in diverse perspective, egocentric and disrespectful; and a view which demonstrates suprising ignorance from a corporation which expects to make its profits off the backs of a liberal-minded,humane and forward-thinking public. I have spent a fortune frequenting your Glastonbury and West Hartford, CT locations because I so enjoyed the big picture choices you offer, but will NEVER set foot in your enterprise to support such a closed-minded leader again.

Ray says …

I will not set foot in Whole Food again until John Mackey resigns or is forced to resign. Apologizing for "poor word choice" does not change Mr. Mackey's insane, Randian beliefs which I cannot stomach or support. I only hope enough Whole Foods shoppers remained as repulsed as I do after his meaningless mea culpa.

Michael Levitin says …

Yes whole foods cares about healthcare for its employees. That does not excuse the so called poor word choice. Government simply does some things better than the private sector can. Even in innovation where the private sector has produced stunning results government has produced equally important results. Ie the space program the Internet and manned flight. Government is stunningly better in insurance which is why we are the only large industrial nation which artificially and expensively has a for profit health insurance industry. An industry whose biggest innovation was the pre existing condition. Non the less instead of going to the public option Obama has blended insurance companies into the mix, a republican idea. One of those many things the republicans were for until Obama agreed. Republicans and the insurance industry have been fighting implementation of fees for performance instead of fees for service. This developed by the mayo clinic pays doctors more for better health results and penelizes bad doctors republicans and the insurance companies have fought this. Where I wonder does whole foods stand on the issue? Perhaps the biggest flaw economically in healthcare is the wasteful requirement that Medicare is not allowed to negotiate drug prices. Where does whole foods stand on savings hundreds of million every year? Back to the poor word choice. Instead of a mistake it was I believe purposefully made reflecting and meant to show disdain ,lack of respect,dislike all verging more toward irrational hatred than facts. Until Rockefeller changed things by buying legislators corporations existed by law only if they served a public good in addition to making money for stockholders. Profit was in America not king but a partner it might be nostalgic but maybe we were better off when government and business were partners not adversaries whole foods would be better off if it worked with government instead of treating it as an enemy

Gerald Smith says …

I think Mr. Mackey's comments were hostile, derogatory and deliberately insulting. I won't say I'm never coming back to Whole Foods -- but it's going to be awhile.

Shelly Bowman says …

You believe no healthcare...I believe no shopping at Whole Foods..I am shocked to find out about .

Stu says …

My family will no longer shop at Whole Foods.

Matt says …

WFM team members are allowed to vote on benefits packages. However, if you fall into the minority in the voting process you are forced to contend with the decision of the majority. It's no secret that the options offered for vote take TM feedback into consideration but ultimately serve the purpose of the corporation as determined by a fraction of its constituents. Sounds a lot like the political system that led to the current healthcare legislation. It's not a particularly innovative or creative process. If the process is good for your team members shouldn't it be good for you and your fellow citizens?

Ann Porter says …

It would be nice if you took a lesson from Costco on the treatment of employees. I love your store but I feel sad for your very nice employees, a major reason I shop at WF. Also what has happened to the genetically modified food issue? When I spend this much money for food, I expect not to worry

Allen Feezor says …

I am the son of a small grocer, so I know how tough the business is...and how narrow the margins. My wife and I are big and longtime fans of Whole Foods, shopping weekly @ WF despite the fact that the WF nearest to our home in Washington NC is 100 miles away. When Mr. Mackey came out strongly against ACA 30 months ago, we chose to boycott for 6 months. And, sadly it appears that we will have to revisit our loyalty yet again...permanently. Mr. Mackey is certainly entitled to his person opinion, but a good business man like he clearly is, he should realize that a significant portion of his company's constituency supported ACA and its implementation. It is puzzling to understand why he continues to opine (complain) about a dysfunctional health care system and efforts (however clumsy) to ameliorate same. Why not focus on milk and other crop supports and other forms of governmental - perhaps equally socialistic/fascist in the eyes of others...or even better, engage his considerable creative and leadership talents in succeeding WITHIN the new law.

claudia dekarz says …

I am deeply offended by the comments of John Mackey.I am a german citizen and resident of the States since 20 years. As far as I know ,Faschism is over since 1945 and the german healthcare system has nothing to do with it. Germany is as capitalistic as the United States. The difference is ,everybody pays in to the system(50%employer and 50% employee),the monthly premium is much lower,and people don't have to worry when they get sick. I spent a lot of money in your store in Portland Maine and I am seriously debating to do that in the future. There are always other options and by the the way your employees are the ones who generate your personal wealth Mr.Mackey,without them you wouldn't have a penny. What about capitalism with a human face?

Oksana says …

Do not believe you for a second. If you side with" tea baggers" and "right wingers "on healthcare,what else you believe in? No global warming? No choices or equal pay for women? I used to do almost all my shopping at WF. Not anymore. I am going to my local store and providing them with my monthly statement, and informing them exactly why I am no longer a customer. I will be happy to come back once you not part of WF family.

Jon says …

So, Mr. Mackey, you state that you favor a system like the Swiss. According this link the Swiss have a universal system, just like the rest of the EU, and insurance payments are compulsory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland How is that different than Obamacare? And in what manner is Obamacare more 'fascistic' OR 'socialist' than what the Swiss and the rest of the EU enjoy?

Melanie says …

I don't feel that the choice of words so bad. The are the TRUTH

Scott says …

Very poor decision on the CEO's part. Those comments cater to the walmart crowd not the whole foods crowd. Those coming out in support of Mackey do not and will not ever shop at whole foods, rather they will continue to shop at walmart and similar establishment catering to the cheaper crowd. Consumers eating organic tend to be educated folks and the educated class is largely liberal therefore you have just pushed us away. Whole foods has lost another customer who spent $12,000 a year there, yes that is a lot but we only buy the best products to ingest and are readily available. Fortunately a competitor has just opened in our area.

Jay Fujimoto says …

Thank you for your expressing your personal feelings, this is the land of free speech. Dont expect my $75 to $100 a week at your Roseville California store

William Cornette says …

I am most upset with the arrogance of the president and the idea that he knows best how our health care system should work. In the USA we often think that we "know the best" way to do things. We are an exceptional country. I agree with that, but we pay twice as much for health care as any country in the world. We are ranked somewhere near 37th in the efficacy of our health care system. Too many get confused between the "best health care that money can buy" and the best health care system. I can assure you that my feelings toward Whole Foods went into the ditch when I read of the CEO"s commentns and his explanation of the comments. I have always liked some of the policies, but this makes me think that the company philosophy is designed to simply get my "Whole Paycheck" by feel good statements which are now seen as meaningless and empty. Sorry that another business has shown the true colors.

Leslie R Wolfe says …

I was appalled at Mr. Mackey's original statement, which clearly reflects his true beliefs and, we must assume, that of the company.. While we always appreciate the belated apologies, we will no longer feel comfortable supporting Whole Foods. Leslie R. Wolfe

Nick Bonnell says …

I am not a regular shopper at Whole Foods but end up at one of their markets about once a month or so, spending about $50 - $75. Sure it isn't a lot but does add up. I've kept shopping at Whole Foods despite Mr. Mackey's other shrill statements in the past, even after his work on buying Wild Oats came out, because the folks I've known who have worked at Whole Foods have seemed to enjoy the job more than not. But his latest remarks have been enough reason to stop me from going to Whole Foods. Mackey talks about the wrong choice of words but stands behind the idea that the Affordable Health Care Act is too intrusive. Well I disagree and think he is wrong. It seems to me like the health care act has some similarities to the Swiss system he touts above. Check out a good article on this from Time magazine - http://nation.time.com/2012/08/16/health-insurance-switzerland-has-its-own-kind-of-obamacare-and-loves-it/

Don McCanne says …

The Organization for Economic Development and Cooperation (OECD) released a 160 page report on the very expensive Swiss health system. In my brief analysis of their report, posted on the website of Physicians for a National Health Program, I wrote the following: "It is not clear why so many in the U.S. are enamored of the Swiss health insurance system when this OECD/WHO report confirms that it is highly inefficient and fragmented, with profound administrative waste, inequitably funded, with regressive financing and with wide variations in premiums, has the highest out-of-pocket costs, has an increasing prevalence of managed care intrusions, and is controlled by a private insurance industry that has learned how to game risk selection at significant cost to those on the losing end." We need innovation in health care, not in private insurance. A public insurance program paying the bills for a private health care delivery system is far more efficient than the egregiously wasteful private insurance industry. That's why we need a single payer system - an improved Medicare that covers everyone.

Bryan Tracy says …

Whole Foods Where is my post? Is this blog capped at 67 entries? I really am unhappy about this whole thing. Mackey should step down.

Nina Maldonado says …

I am very, very disappointed in your comments. I look to Whole Foods to feed my family a HEALTHY alternative precisely because the health care system is not working. When I hear other CEO (like Papa John) say ridiculous, racist comments it is EASY to avoid his ketchup shop. But when I hear it from a CEO whose profits have risen over 300 % under fascist Obama, I am simply taken aback. I remember reading an article that said there were few company that thrived in this economy and one that did was Whole Foods because people put stock and value in having good food. Do you know how much I pay for a half-gallon of grass-fed (glass) milk at your store? The miles I have to travel? Only for you to say that we are living a fascist society? Really so your healthcare is better than your staff (who, by-the-way, in Marlton, NJ are SENSATIONAL)? I am really considering taking my business elsewhere, but guess what Whole Foods is the best know and most of the time ONLY big "natural based" store in town. Now tell me, should I consider that fascist?

nyp says …

Mr. Mackey: Switzerland mandates that every citizen purchase health insurance, in order to avoid the "free rider" problem. It is just like ObamaCare -- guaranteed issue health plans, government-subsidized private health insurance for people of limited means, strict government regulation of basic, compulsory health plans. If you are now advocating that we adopt the Swiss system of health insurance mandates, that is a helpful step forward on your part.

Monty says …

As I listened to the NPR interview I couldn't believe my ears. Wow Mackey gives new meaning to pimping a book at all cost. As a long time shopper of WF I can't remember such a negative association with the company. I will continue to shop at WF but can't help but have a diminished sense of the place and it's CEO.

Pat W. says …

I appreciated hearing John Mackey's views. I think the 'need for sensitivity' in the U.S. has gone loopy and in turn stifles honest dialogue as people are forced to be politically correct. If Mr. Mackey feels the type of governance our government has become fits the definition of facism, then let him call it facism. If the sensitive population resents the term so much, how do they think those of us feel about a government that we believe is acting in fascist ways?

sue murray says …

My family has been loyal customers of Whole Foods since you opened the first store in Dallas. We have loved everything about your stores and not only do we do our weekly shopping at WF, we do so much more. All birthday cakes come from WF. For my daughter’s wedding we bought all the flowers and had the bouquets made at the Preston Royal store which were absolutely gorgeous. We had so many compliments and gave several referrals. Each Christmas every member of our family finds and expects to find a WF gift card in their stockings. And all Tom’s, our favorite shoes, are bought at WF. I tell you all this because I want you to know that Whole Foods has always been our store. We felt good about shopping and supporting this company until hearing the horrible comments of CEO John Mackey. We have been duped. This is not a special company at all. It is just another company lead by a CEO with no concern for his employees or his fellow man and who has such a irrational hatred of our President that he will use the most repulsive language to stir up hate and fear. I am so sorry that we were fooled and we will never shop at Whole Foods again. I’m sorry that you were not the company we thought you were.

Kent says …

I would not refer to Obama as a fascist, he acts more like a totalitarian Marxist.

J A says …

While I do not currently do the bulk of my shopping at Whole Foods, I have gained a new respect for its CEO, and therefore its company, and now intend to make a greater effort to support the company with my business. I appreciate the fact that Mr. Mackey is prepared to honestly comment on a highly controversial topic that will affect every American, like the new healthcare passed under the Obama Administration, even if some may disagree with his opinion. I recently watched the CNN interview with Mr. Mackey and was appalled by the tone and conduct of the interviewer. What I would interpret as a "legitimate journalist" attempting to discredit and castigate another individual for exercising his First Amendment amendment rights on national television is unbelievable, and the news organization's (through the interviewer) attempt to remove certain words from the public sphere is something that should concern every American. While we may not agree with every word someone says, we should all be glad that we live in a country that provides freedom of speech and do all we can to protect that right--not mock them publicly. There are much more respectable ways to disagree with someone's comments. Mr. Mackey, thank you for speaking your mind, standing up for you beliefs and for protecting your employees. I know that if I worked for your company I would appreciate the fact that I have a leader who is prepared to defend its employees.

Barnett Jordan Sr. says …

Appreciate you being upfront about your views, now I will never shop at a Whole Foods ever again.

nick says …

Mr. Mackey shows his general ignorance because the system the PPACA creates is exactly the kind he outlines. It's a free-market based system with a strong safety net.

Suzanne Caplan says …

I am a fan and customer and one. given your "choice of words" was ready to stop shopping and make it an issue among friends who also shop. I have heard recent interviews and I have ordered the book and I am ready to learn more. BUT, we all need to be less arrogant and confrontational with our words these days and find ways to resolve honest disagreements. Healthcare needs improvements but our very lives cannot be cared for in a "free market " system. There are some basic obligations. Thank you for addressing your poor choice of words.

Peter Baldridge says …

With all due respect, I believe your choice of words was entirely correct. I appreciated your candor and willingness to speak out. I regret that you have been shouted down by the media message managers to the point of retraction. We need more honesty in our political dialogue, not less. Thank you for attempting to be honest in society dominated by spin.

Joan says …

Mr. Mackey, feel proud of what you've built. You are absolutely on point with your beliefs and dedication to your employees. My son, Kevin, is a team member of Whole Foods and speaks very highly of you and his experience there. You are definitely doing something right and your detractors should only hope to someday meet your standards. Whole Foods was ranked one of the 100 best companies to work for by Fortune magazine for the 15th consecutive year for a reason ...

mike sheehy says …

You CEO's, just can't help yourself, can you? It's not good enough that your company has profited over 300% more since President OBama became president, you want more. Yes, the healthcare plan will cost more for corporations but you still only pay roughly $10.00 and hr in wages. I usually spend $230-$275 per week at your stores for our groceries. I am now cutting down to $100 or less per week. Hopefully, someone will come out with a neww model and we can switch stores.. Keep biting the hands that feeds you...

Jim Corbin says …

I am thankful John Mackey has the clarity of thought to describe our situation in completely accurate way. How he has described our health care situation is completely true. Facts are difficult sometimes. They need to be understood as such. We look for euphemisms to appease those who don't understand things that need to be described accurately. This preoccupation of softening speech so people won't be offended is offensive in itself. I want a leader who speaks clearly and intentionally. This type of public manipulation of personal thought turns a brilliant, solid argument into a impotent message-in-a-bottle, bobbing in an ocean of "feelings". There are paths to take and paths to avoid for a growing, caring and free society. Paths that benefit all of us as Americans. John knows this. John Mackey has a right to an opinion and the obligation of his position to use what ever words are appropriate and accurate. That is what he has done. He cares for his country and it's people. It goes far beyond a personal preference. John is a leader. Culturally sensitive wording is something that waters down the facts and makes a clarion call just another thoughtful whisper. Please speak John. Please!!! Jim Corbin Whole Foods Team Member since 2006 Davis, CA

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